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	<title>Comments on: Western threads</title>
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	<link>http://snarkmarket.com/2010/5778</link>
	<description>The stomping grounds of Tim Carmody, Robin Sloan and Matt Thompson. It&#039;s a long-running conversation about media, journalism, technology, cities, culture, design, books, music, movies, the future and the past.</description>
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		<title>By: Tim Carmody</title>
		<link>http://snarkmarket.com/2010/5778/comment-page-1#comment-11899</link>
		<dc:creator>Tim Carmody</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 01 Jul 2010 02:11:52 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://snarkmarket.com/?p=5778#comment-11899</guid>
		<description>Another note on the Western. The other big subtext for the genre is the Civil War. The war was fought -- I&#039;d say primarily -- because western expansion brought with it the expansion of slavery. Or a tipping of the free/slave state balance. Either way, the status quo couldn&#039;t hold. And slavery/anti-slavery sentiment in turn pushed and colored western expansion. Bleeding Kansas, the annexation of Texas, manifest destiny. 

David Milch said that most of what we remember as the stories feeding the Western were re-enactments of the war. You had cattle drivers, mostly Confederate veterans, coming up from the South to places like Dodge City, butting up against marshals who were mostly Union veterans. You also have the explosion of guns, especially revolvers and repeating rifles, plus men who know how to use them.

Imagine, for a moment, black slaves driving cattle in Texas, or mining for silver in Arizona. I mean, you had something awfully close to slavery with Asian and European workers anyways. But imagine how different the Western would be.

The war plays an overt part in a handful of Westerns, like &lt;em&gt;The Searchers,&lt;/em&gt;, &lt;em&gt;The Outlaw Josey Wales&lt;/em&gt;, &lt;em&gt;Dances With Wolves&lt;/em&gt;, or &lt;em&gt;The Good, the Bad, and the Ugly&lt;/em&gt;. But it&#039;s always there.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Another note on the Western. The other big subtext for the genre is the Civil War. The war was fought — I’d say primarily — because western expansion brought with it the expansion of slavery. Or a tipping of the free/slave state balance. Either way, the status quo couldn’t hold. And slavery/anti-slavery sentiment in turn pushed and colored western expansion. Bleeding Kansas, the annexation of Texas, manifest destiny. </p>
<p>David Milch said that most of what we remember as the stories feeding the Western were re-enactments of the war. You had cattle drivers, mostly Confederate veterans, coming up from the South to places like Dodge City, butting up against marshals who were mostly Union veterans. You also have the explosion of guns, especially revolvers and repeating rifles, plus men who know how to use them.</p>
<p>Imagine, for a moment, black slaves driving cattle in Texas, or mining for silver in Arizona. I mean, you had something awfully close to slavery with Asian and European workers anyways. But imagine how different the Western would be.</p>
<p>The war plays an overt part in a handful of Westerns, like <em>The Searchers</em> <em>The Outlaw Josey Wales</em>, <em>Dances With Wolves</em>, or <em>The Good, the Bad, and the Ugly</em>. But it’s always there.</p>
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		<title>By: Tim Carmody</title>
		<link>http://snarkmarket.com/2010/5778/comment-page-1#comment-11897</link>
		<dc:creator>Tim Carmody</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 01 Jul 2010 01:55:59 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://snarkmarket.com/?p=5778#comment-11897</guid>
		<description>Absolutely. Another gigantic, maybe undernoticed theme in the Western is the extraction/exploitation of natural resources, from gold and silver to cattle to oil. That&#039;s the reason everyone is there. Everything else -- all the sheriffs and outlaws and gambers and prostitutes and saloonkeepers, all of it -- springs from that.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Absolutely. Another gigantic, maybe undernoticed theme in the Western is the extraction/exploitation of natural resources, from gold and silver to cattle to oil. That’s the reason everyone is there. Everything else — all the sheriffs and outlaws and gambers and prostitutes and saloonkeepers, all of it — springs from that.</p>
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		<title>By: echan</title>
		<link>http://snarkmarket.com/2010/5778/comment-page-1#comment-11896</link>
		<dc:creator>echan</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 01 Jul 2010 01:24:12 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://snarkmarket.com/?p=5778#comment-11896</guid>
		<description>Also, for something more contemporary, even though it doesn&#039;t have Injuns, I think of There Will Be Blood as a modern Western.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Also, for something more contemporary, even though it doesn’t have Injuns, I think of There Will Be Blood as a modern Western.</p>
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		<title>By: echan</title>
		<link>http://snarkmarket.com/2010/5778/comment-page-1#comment-11895</link>
		<dc:creator>echan</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 01 Jul 2010 01:21:54 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://snarkmarket.com/?p=5778#comment-11895</guid>
		<description>Wait, 12 comments, and no one has suggested Red River yet?

Also, along with what Tim said, Westerns in book form rival the movies. In terms of fiction, the Oxbow Incident jumps to my mind first.  In non-fiction, Cadillac Desert is one of the best, but you&#039;ve probably read that already.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Wait, 12 comments, and no one has suggested Red River yet?</p>
<p>Also, along with what Tim said, Westerns in book form rival the movies. In terms of fiction, the Oxbow Incident jumps to my mind first.  In non-fiction, Cadillac Desert is one of the best, but you’ve probably read that already.</p>
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		<title>By: Matt Thomas</title>
		<link>http://snarkmarket.com/2010/5778/comment-page-1#comment-11873</link>
		<dc:creator>Matt Thomas</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 30 Jun 2010 04:25:17 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://snarkmarket.com/?p=5778#comment-11873</guid>
		<description>Any of the Westerns directed by &lt;a href=&quot;http://www.imdb.com/name/nm0091430/&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;Budd Boetticher&lt;/a&gt; and &lt;a href=&quot;http://www.imdb.com/name/nm0542649/&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;Anthony Mann&lt;/a&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Any of the Westerns directed by <a href="http://www.imdb.com/name/nm0091430/" rel="nofollow">Budd Boetticher</a> and <a href="http://www.imdb.com/name/nm0542649/" rel="nofollow">Anthony Mann</a></p>
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		<title>By: Guy</title>
		<link>http://snarkmarket.com/2010/5778/comment-page-1#comment-11870</link>
		<dc:creator>Guy</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 30 Jun 2010 01:31:46 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://snarkmarket.com/?p=5778#comment-11870</guid>
		<description>The AV Club put together &lt;a href=&quot;http://www.avclub.com/articles/spaghetti-westerns,41344/&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;a guide to Spaghetti Westerns&lt;/a&gt; not too long ago.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The AV Club put together <a href="http://www.avclub.com/articles/spaghetti-westerns,41344/" rel="nofollow">a guide to Spaghetti Westerns</a> not too long ago.</p>
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		<title>By: Derek</title>
		<link>http://snarkmarket.com/2010/5778/comment-page-1#comment-11859</link>
		<dc:creator>Derek</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 29 Jun 2010 21:31:48 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://snarkmarket.com/?p=5778#comment-11859</guid>
		<description>Two of note:

&quot;The Assassination of Jesse James by the Coward Robert Ford&quot; - interesting look at Jesse James, but most notable for Casey Affleck. 

My all time favorite movie: &quot;The Searchers&quot;. So much to be said, but this movie really was the culmination of the John Wayne character, played throughout his career: tough guy, singular mission, overcoming great odds, with a slight twist that shows heart and compassion. Many subtexts as well (family, tolerance vs. intolerance, etc.). I just wish I could have seen it in Cinemascope...</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Two of note:</p>
<p>“The Assassination of Jesse James by the Coward Robert Ford” — interesting look at Jesse James, but most notable for Casey Affleck. </p>
<p>My all time favorite movie: “The Searchers”. So much to be said, but this movie really was the culmination of the John Wayne character, played throughout his career: tough guy, singular mission, overcoming great odds, with a slight twist that shows heart and compassion. Many subtexts as well (family, tolerance vs. intolerance, etc.). I just wish I could have seen it in Cinemascope…</p>
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		<title>By: Matthew Battles</title>
		<link>http://snarkmarket.com/2010/5778/comment-page-1#comment-11858</link>
		<dc:creator>Matthew Battles</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 29 Jun 2010 21:03:52 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://snarkmarket.com/?p=5778#comment-11858</guid>
		<description>Huge Western fan. Tim, I love what you&#039;re saying here about transmedia genres, which I suppose I tend to gravitate towards. I&#039;d like to see something more general on the topic.

My son has Red Dead Redemption. I watched him play it; at a certain juncture in the game, he ended up in a lengthy wagon race. Later, he got walloped in a horseshoe duel—at which point I started cracking jokes like, &quot;pardner, Im&#039;a callin&#039; you out. Shuffleboard at high noon!&quot; Too bad all the lawn games in Rio Bravo ended up on the cutting room floor.

I&#039;m joking—but I also wonder what the insertion of such seemingly incidental material into the midst of genre conventions has to tell us about gaming &amp; story &amp; genre.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Huge Western fan. Tim, I love what you’re saying here about transmedia genres, which I suppose I tend to gravitate towards. I’d like to see something more general on the topic.</p>
<p>My son has Red Dead Redemption. I watched him play it; at a certain juncture in the game, he ended up in a lengthy wagon race. Later, he got walloped in a horseshoe duel—at which point I started cracking jokes like, “pardner, Im’a callin’ you out. Shuffleboard at high noon!” Too bad all the lawn games in Rio Bravo ended up on the cutting room floor.</p>
<p>I’m joking—but I also wonder what the insertion of such seemingly incidental material into the midst of genre conventions has to tell us about gaming &amp; story &amp; genre.</p>
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		<title>By: Will P.</title>
		<link>http://snarkmarket.com/2010/5778/comment-page-1#comment-11857</link>
		<dc:creator>Will P.</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 29 Jun 2010 18:17:42 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://snarkmarket.com/?p=5778#comment-11857</guid>
		<description>STAGECOACH. This is the alpha and omega of Westerns, John Ford&#039;s directing, John Wayne&#039;s acting career, the history of film, etc. That may sound like it will be boring, but good. It isn&#039;t.

Obviously all the Leone films. &quot;Good/Bad/Ugly&quot; gets the most critical love, but the first two are just so fun and uncomplicated and fresh that I think I like them better. If you want more Clint Eastwood, watch &quot;High Plains Drifter,&quot; and be prepared to be slightly shocked and moderately confused. Talk about painting the town red...

&quot;Dead Man&quot; is an awesome Jarmusch/Depp/Neil Young collabo.

&quot;The Man Who Shot Liberty Vallance&quot; takes the Jimmy Stewart and John Wayne archetypes and throws them together. &quot;The Searchers&quot; is another good John Wayne standard.

The new &quot;3:10 to Yuma&quot; was actually pretty decent.

And obviously &quot;Blazin&#039; Saddles&quot; to see a movie taking the piss from all these classics.

Start there, and have fun! And definitely play Red Dead too; it&#039;s great.

W</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>STAGECOACH. This is the alpha and omega of Westerns, John Ford’s directing, John Wayne’s acting career, the history of film, etc. That may sound like it will be boring, but good. It isn’t.</p>
<p>Obviously all the Leone films. “Good/Bad/Ugly” gets the most critical love, but the first two are just so fun and uncomplicated and fresh that I think I like them better. If you want more Clint Eastwood, watch “High Plains Drifter,” and be prepared to be slightly shocked and moderately confused. Talk about painting the town red…</p>
<p>“Dead Man” is an awesome Jarmusch/Depp/Neil Young collabo.</p>
<p>“The Man Who Shot Liberty Vallance” takes the Jimmy Stewart and John Wayne archetypes and throws them together. “The Searchers” is another good John Wayne standard.</p>
<p>The new “3:10 to Yuma” was actually pretty decent.</p>
<p>And obviously “Blazin’ Saddles” to see a movie taking the piss from all these classics.</p>
<p>Start there, and have fun! And definitely play Red Dead too; it’s great.</p>
<p>W</p>
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		<title>By: Saheli</title>
		<link>http://snarkmarket.com/2010/5778/comment-page-1#comment-11837</link>
		<dc:creator>Saheli</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 28 Jun 2010 19:59:53 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://snarkmarket.com/?p=5778#comment-11837</guid>
		<description>I should note that I think I saw it on a school field trip, because it was definitely on some sort of special run.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I should note that I think I saw it on a school field trip, because it was definitely on some sort of special run.</p>
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