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	<title>Comments on: Universal acid</title>
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	<link>http://snarkmarket.com/2010/5731</link>
	<description>The stomping grounds of Tim Carmody, Robin Sloan and Matt Thompson. It&#039;s a long-running conversation about media, journalism, technology, cities, culture, design, books, music, movies, the future and the past.</description>
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		<title>By: August</title>
		<link>http://snarkmarket.com/2010/5731/comment-page-1#comment-12967</link>
		<dc:creator>August</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 18 Aug 2010 02:23:12 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://snarkmarket.com/?p=5731#comment-12967</guid>
		<description>&quot;Universal acide&quot; might come from D&amp;D, but &quot;universal solvent&quot; doesn&#039;t. It&#039;s the name of a concept from alchemy (as it existed in the real world), a sought-after substance sometimes called Alkahest. It&#039;s also a name sometimes given to water (it&#039;s gently, but will break down pretty much everything given enough time). The name Alkahest comes from the Swiss renaissance physician/alchemist/philosopher/etc Paracelsus. 

&quot;Universal acid&quot; sounds suspiciously like somebody had heard of the &quot;universal solvent&quot; concept but misremembered what it was called.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>“Universal acide” might come from D&amp;D, but “universal solvent” doesn’t. It’s the name of a concept from alchemy (as it existed in the real world), a sought-after substance sometimes called Alkahest. It’s also a name sometimes given to water (it’s gently, but will break down pretty much everything given enough time). The name Alkahest comes from the Swiss renaissance physician/alchemist/philosopher/etc Paracelsus. </p>
<p>“Universal acid” sounds suspiciously like somebody had heard of the “universal solvent” concept but misremembered what it was called.</p>
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		<title>By: Peter</title>
		<link>http://snarkmarket.com/2010/5731/comment-page-1#comment-11738</link>
		<dc:creator>Peter</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 24 Jun 2010 06:41:59 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://snarkmarket.com/?p=5731#comment-11738</guid>
		<description>I think it may be true that the interdisciplinary innovators are not as respected as the old warhorses of the field, but I still have hope that their ideas can leak out and permeate.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I think it may be true that the interdisciplinary innovators are not as respected as the old warhorses of the field, but I still have hope that their ideas can leak out and permeate.</p>
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		<title>By: Saheli</title>
		<link>http://snarkmarket.com/2010/5731/comment-page-1#comment-11729</link>
		<dc:creator>Saheli</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 23 Jun 2010 18:06:56 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://snarkmarket.com/?p=5731#comment-11729</guid>
		<description>My worry is that if those &quot;few people&quot; who are interdisciplinary thinks are too marginalized in their &quot;main&quot; fields (as opposed to the old days, when the dominating experts in any given field were also pretty good at other fields too) then their adventurism won&#039;t pay off: they won&#039;t be listened to when they try to import and expand the ideas across boundaries and up and down levels. I work with a lot of interdisciplinary collaborations, and a common lament is that mainstream members in each field only truly respect people with serious accomplishments in their field, and it&#039;s pretty difficult to be an interdisciplinary innovator &lt;i&gt;and&lt;/i&gt; maintain full expertise in all the subfields.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>My worry is that if those “few people” who are interdisciplinary thinks are too marginalized in their “main” fields (as opposed to the old days, when the dominating experts in any given field were also pretty good at other fields too) then their adventurism won’t pay off: they won’t be listened to when they try to import and expand the ideas across boundaries and up and down levels. I work with a lot of interdisciplinary collaborations, and a common lament is that mainstream members in each field only truly respect people with serious accomplishments in their field, and it’s pretty difficult to be an interdisciplinary innovator <i>and</i> maintain full expertise in all the subfields.</p>
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		<title>By: Saheli</title>
		<link>http://snarkmarket.com/2010/5731/comment-page-1#comment-11728</link>
		<dc:creator>Saheli</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 23 Jun 2010 18:03:34 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://snarkmarket.com/?p=5731#comment-11728</guid>
		<description>&lt;i&gt;lthough I think the prob­lems I tried to lay out in truly rec­on­cil­ing evo­lu­tion and reli­gion extend to non-Abrahamic reli­gions too?&lt;/i&gt;

First of all, I wasn&#039;t saying that these issues necessarily apply to all Abrahamic religions--I can&#039;t claim any kind of expertise over all of them, and Dan seems to be making a well-informed argument that they don&#039;t over at least some. I was more pointing out that there are a lot of things that people associate with Religion that are actually Abrahamic Religion: the innate superiority of human souls over animal souls, for one small instance.  I don&#039;t think this is really a good thread for me to open an entire theological exposition on my own religion, which is the only one I can claim any true knowledge of, but basically, I would say the answer is, no, I don&#039;t think they do. Any basically, my only point is this: the set of possible theological belief systems is very large, and by its nature flexible.  Generalizing about them is difficult.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><i>lthough I think the prob­lems I tried to lay out in truly rec­on­cil­ing evo­lu­tion and reli­gion extend to non-Abrahamic reli­gions too?</i></p>
<p>First of all, I wasn’t saying that these issues necessarily apply to all Abrahamic religions–I can’t claim any kind of expertise over all of them, and Dan seems to be making a well-informed argument that they don’t over at least some. I was more pointing out that there are a lot of things that people associate with Religion that are actually Abrahamic Religion: the innate superiority of human souls over animal souls, for one small instance.  I don’t think this is really a good thread for me to open an entire theological exposition on my own religion, which is the only one I can claim any true knowledge of, but basically, I would say the answer is, no, I don’t think they do. Any basically, my only point is this: the set of possible theological belief systems is very large, and by its nature flexible.  Generalizing about them is difficult.</p>
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		<title>By: Tim</title>
		<link>http://snarkmarket.com/2010/5731/comment-page-1#comment-11727</link>
		<dc:creator>Tim</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 23 Jun 2010 17:06:39 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://snarkmarket.com/?p=5731#comment-11727</guid>
		<description>I&#039;m going to reopen this, because I&#039;m not necessarily sure what the problem is. For the purposes of this counter-argument, I&#039;ll try to limit my position to the class of argument to religions that believe in a divine being or beings that intervene in the world in response to prayer. 

Peter&#039;s problem is that this supposes that God (or presumably gods) have a chosen team in homo sapiens. Why exactly is this a problem? It&#039;s not as if it&#039;s a hidden assumption. If you&#039;re an adherent of one of these religions, it would make sense to say, yes, of course; furthermore that God(s) have a chosen subteam of adherents to a particular religion or subset of religions, that God further typically only grants some prayers to some people some of the time. 

Now, once you&#039;ve titrated that down further to consider the subset of those prayers that directly or even indirectly bear on evolutionary descent and/or change -- as opposed to prayers for patience, or for extraterrestrial favors (after all, a good deal of what most religions are interested in pertains to the fate of your soul, not your genes), than I think you could say that the impact of intercessory prayer on the evolution of the species is negligible. Nor, again, are most prayers concerned with such things.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I’m going to reopen this, because I’m not necessarily sure what the problem is. For the purposes of this counter-argument, I’ll try to limit my position to the class of argument to religions that believe in a divine being or beings that intervene in the world in response to prayer. </p>
<p>Peter’s problem is that this supposes that God (or presumably gods) have a chosen team in homo sapiens. Why exactly is this a problem? It’s not as if it’s a hidden assumption. If you’re an adherent of one of these religions, it would make sense to say, yes, of course; furthermore that God(s) have a chosen subteam of adherents to a particular religion or subset of religions, that God further typically only grants some prayers to some people some of the time. </p>
<p>Now, once you’ve titrated that down further to consider the subset of those prayers that directly or even indirectly bear on evolutionary descent and/or change — as opposed to prayers for patience, or for extraterrestrial favors (after all, a good deal of what most religions are interested in pertains to the fate of your soul, not your genes), than I think you could say that the impact of intercessory prayer on the evolution of the species is negligible. Nor, again, are most prayers concerned with such things.</p>
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		<title>By: Tim Carmody</title>
		<link>http://snarkmarket.com/2010/5731/comment-page-1#comment-11704</link>
		<dc:creator>Tim Carmody</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 22 Jun 2010 21:15:21 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://snarkmarket.com/?p=5731#comment-11704</guid>
		<description>Huh? What? Oh.... Um, good. Glad you cleared that up. Just don&#039;t do it again.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Huh? What? Oh.… Um, good. Glad you cleared that up. Just don’t do it again.</p>
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		<title>By: Peter</title>
		<link>http://snarkmarket.com/2010/5731/comment-page-1#comment-11702</link>
		<dc:creator>Peter</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 22 Jun 2010 20:02:47 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://snarkmarket.com/?p=5731#comment-11702</guid>
		<description>I broke some threading too and have some comments that are lost in the ether now.  It was after my first comment when I then replied to my own comment 3 times.  Now the server thinks my last level of comments are there, but they&#039;re not showing.  But perhaps this is a useful safeguard against boors who self-comment excessively...</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I broke some threading too and have some comments that are lost in the ether now.  It was after my first comment when I then replied to my own comment 3 times.  Now the server thinks my last level of comments are there, but they’re not showing.  But perhaps this is a useful safeguard against boors who self-comment excessively…</p>
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	<item>
		<title>By: Peter</title>
		<link>http://snarkmarket.com/2010/5731/comment-page-1#comment-11701</link>
		<dc:creator>Peter</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 22 Jun 2010 20:00:54 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://snarkmarket.com/?p=5731#comment-11701</guid>
		<description>Before Tim dings me: the Frost lines are an epigraph and an epigram, whereas the Auden lines I was referring to are epigrams...</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Before Tim dings me: the Frost lines are an epigraph and an epigram, whereas the Auden lines I was referring to are epigrams…</p>
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		<title>By: Peter</title>
		<link>http://snarkmarket.com/2010/5731/comment-page-1#comment-11700</link>
		<dc:creator>Peter</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 22 Jun 2010 19:59:44 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://snarkmarket.com/?p=5731#comment-11700</guid>
		<description>@Saheli, interesting question: what conditions are required for a new acid to be possible?  I think we are okay here.  Seems to me that what&#039;s required for acid is just that a few people are looking across boundaries for solutions in their own field, or looking for ways to apply the tools of their field to new ones.  This is going on.  What you point out is that there are few people who really know many fields at once.  This I think limits grand syntheses, but acid is probably still possible?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@Saheli, interesting question: what conditions are required for a new acid to be possible?  I think we are okay here.  Seems to me that what’s required for acid is just that a few people are looking across boundaries for solutions in their own field, or looking for ways to apply the tools of their field to new ones.  This is going on.  What you point out is that there are few people who really know many fields at once.  This I think limits grand syntheses, but acid is probably still possible?</p>
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		<title>By: Peter</title>
		<link>http://snarkmarket.com/2010/5731/comment-page-1#comment-11699</link>
		<dc:creator>Peter</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 22 Jun 2010 19:56:20 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://snarkmarket.com/?p=5731#comment-11699</guid>
		<description>According to WP, a popular take on Chaos Theory is the &quot;Butterfly Effect&quot;, where a tiny change in input creates a huge, unexpected change in output.  This has made it into the popular consciousness, for example in SciFi plots involving time travel.  And it&#039;s true that unexpected sensitivity to input conditions is a fundamental part of Chaos Theory.

But I find the more profound side of the theory is as outlined above.  It&#039;s not just that the results are very sensitive to starting conditions, it&#039;s that the results can be chaotic despite very simple interactions within a very simple, deterministic system.  And perhaps also worthwhile is the insight that a seemingly simple system can appear to behave nice and simply most of the time, but given certain input conditions it suddenly reverts to chaos.

I wonder if there is a popular trope that hits on these other aspects of Chaos Theory.  The Butterfly Effect is just not doing it for me.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>According to WP, a popular take on Chaos Theory is the “Butterfly Effect”, where a tiny change in input creates a huge, unexpected change in output.  This has made it into the popular consciousness, for example in SciFi plots involving time travel.  And it’s true that unexpected sensitivity to input conditions is a fundamental part of Chaos Theory.</p>
<p>But I find the more profound side of the theory is as outlined above.  It’s not just that the results are very sensitive to starting conditions, it’s that the results can be chaotic despite very simple interactions within a very simple, deterministic system.  And perhaps also worthwhile is the insight that a seemingly simple system can appear to behave nice and simply most of the time, but given certain input conditions it suddenly reverts to chaos.</p>
<p>I wonder if there is a popular trope that hits on these other aspects of Chaos Theory.  The Butterfly Effect is just not doing it for me.</p>
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