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	<title>Comments on: What Are the New Liberal Arts?</title>
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	<link>http://snarkmarket.com/2009/2521</link>
	<description>The stomping grounds of Tim Carmody, Robin Sloan and Matt Thompson. It&#039;s a long-running conversation about media, journalism, technology, cities, culture, design, books, music, movies, the future and the past.</description>
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		<title>By: Tim</title>
		<link>http://snarkmarket.com/2009/2521/comment-page-1#comment-4408</link>
		<dc:creator>Tim</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 07 Feb 2009 18:25:37 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://67.207.132.117/?p=2521#comment-4408</guid>
		<description>Some liberal arts are just a little more meta-arty than others. Evaluating, discriminating, and questioning value is one of those. (And yes, I just did that.)

I have always liked the idea that at their core, the liberal arts carry with them a particularly humanist sense of value, without necessarily all of the philosophical commitments of humanism. Essentially, this boils down to the idea that knowledge and the transmission of human learning is good, that it benefits us spiritually, ethically, practically, even when its benefits aren&#039;t obvious on any of those counts.

We&#039;ve had a big fat slug in our off-site chart of new liberal arts, titled &quot;ethics.&quot; And next to it, someone typed -- without any sense of irony, I swear -- &quot;needs development.&quot;

I don&#039;t know if &quot;ethics&quot; does the trick. But some sense of philosophy-ethics-humanism, that can try to reason in this light of understanding value, of a science of the self that can answer or at least continually pose that philo-humanist &lt;em&gt;a priori&lt;/em&gt; question -- &quot;when we do X, what do we mean?&quot; -- yes, I think we have to say that we need that!

Or fuck it, liberal arts moratorium, because &lt;em&gt;we need better batteries.&lt;/em&gt;

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		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Some liberal arts are just a little more meta-arty than others. Evaluating, discriminating, and questioning value is one of those. (And yes, I just did that.)</p>
<p>I have always liked the idea that at their core, the liberal arts carry with them a particularly humanist sense of value, without necessarily all of the philosophical commitments of humanism. Essentially, this boils down to the idea that knowledge and the transmission of human learning is good, that it benefits us spiritually, ethically, practically, even when its benefits aren’t obvious on any of those counts.</p>
<p>We’ve had a big fat slug in our off-site chart of new liberal arts, titled “ethics.” And next to it, someone typed — without any sense of irony, I swear — “needs development.”</p>
<p>I don’t know if “ethics” does the trick. But some sense of philosophy-ethics-humanism, that can try to reason in this light of understanding value, of a science of the self that can answer or at least continually pose that philo-humanist <em>a priori</em> question — “when we do X, what do we mean?” — yes, I think we have to say that we need that!</p>
<p>Or fuck it, liberal arts moratorium, because <em>we need better batteries.</em></p>
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		<title>By: Dan</title>
		<link>http://snarkmarket.com/2009/2521/comment-page-1#comment-4407</link>
		<dc:creator>Dan</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 07 Feb 2009 15:56:03 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://67.207.132.117/?p=2521#comment-4407</guid>
		<description>Yes! Axes! That&#039;s what I&#039;m talking about.

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		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Yes! Axes! That’s what I’m talking about.</p>
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		<title>By: Robin</title>
		<link>http://snarkmarket.com/2009/2521/comment-page-1#comment-4406</link>
		<dc:creator>Robin</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 07 Feb 2009 12:39:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://67.207.132.117/?p=2521#comment-4406</guid>
		<description>Ha... I&#039;m sensitive to the superficial point, b/c I think it might be right. These NLAs are going to carry the thumbprint of the fads, obsessions, and enthusiasms of 2009. But I think that&#039;s okay. We&#039;re not trying to etch a new list of liberal arts in stone; we&#039;re trying to push the conversation forward, to poke and prod. And to that end, teasing things apart and taking a few risks is better than just saying, &quot;oh, you know what? Turns out it was truth, beauty and good all along. Yup.&quot;

That said: Maybe we should have a little meter in the corner of every page that rates each NLA according to the axes of truth/beauty/good :-)

</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Ha… I’m sensitive to the superficial point, b/c I think it might be right. These NLAs are going to carry the thumbprint of the fads, obsessions, and enthusiasms of 2009. But I think that’s okay. We’re not trying to etch a new list of liberal arts in stone; we’re trying to push the conversation forward, to poke and prod. And to that end, teasing things apart and taking a few risks is better than just saying, “oh, you know what? Turns out it was truth, beauty and good all along. Yup.”</p>
<p>That said: Maybe we should have a little meter in the corner of every page that rates each NLA according to the axes of truth/beauty/good :-)</p>
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		<title>By: Dan</title>
		<link>http://snarkmarket.com/2009/2521/comment-page-1#comment-4405</link>
		<dc:creator>Dan</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 07 Feb 2009 11:37:15 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://67.207.132.117/?p=2521#comment-4405</guid>
		<description>Why have I written these posts:

1. Much of the New Liberal Arts discussion in the other post, while exciting and fascinating, strikes me as a tad superficial: lots of gee-whiz, lots of practical power, but maybe not asking &quot;why&quot; and &quot;what for.&quot; By all means, let&#039;s discuss the New Beauty of today, or the New Science, but only if we also consider the New Humanities.

2. As a kind of response to the anti-humanities fight at the beginning of the other thread. My argument here: the humanities are not truly separate from the sciences. Without considering the value of scientific knowledge, it&#039;s, well, valueless. Humanists (be they trained as philosophers, historians, or scientists) need to ask fundamental questions about science.

More writing about Thoreau!

</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Why have I written these posts:</p>
<p>1. Much of the New Liberal Arts discussion in the other post, while exciting and fascinating, strikes me as a tad superficial: lots of gee-whiz, lots of practical power, but maybe not asking “why” and “what for.” By all means, let’s discuss the New Beauty of today, or the New Science, but only if we also consider the New Humanities.</p>
<p>2. As a kind of response to the anti-humanities fight at the beginning of the other thread. My argument here: the humanities are not truly separate from the sciences. Without considering the value of scientific knowledge, it’s, well, valueless. Humanists (be they trained as philosophers, historians, or scientists) need to ask fundamental questions about science.</p>
<p>More writing about Thoreau!</p>
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		<title>By: Dan</title>
		<link>http://snarkmarket.com/2009/2521/comment-page-1#comment-4404</link>
		<dc:creator>Dan</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 07 Feb 2009 11:29:15 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://67.207.132.117/?p=2521#comment-4404</guid>
		<description>As for beauty and communication, I&#039;m sticking to my argument that at the very least they map onto one another in a non-trivial way. Maybe we can think of beauty as an old-timey measure of communicative effectiveness. Communication is preferable because it&#039;s more expansive a term. I want &quot;beauty&quot; to be more evocative. And since the New Liberal Arts take design so seriously, I think beauty ties together visual and written rhetoric nicely.

Value: in the end, unless you have a sense of purpose, of the good, I don&#039;t see how you can have a measure of utility.

Durable knowledge: exactly! I want us to think about the disciplines as a whole host of wonderful knowledge defining traditions. The liberally-trained individual need not be fluent in all of them, but knows they exist.

</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>As for beauty and communication, I’m sticking to my argument that at the very least they map onto one another in a non-trivial way. Maybe we can think of beauty as an old-timey measure of communicative effectiveness. Communication is preferable because it’s more expansive a term. I want “beauty” to be more evocative. And since the New Liberal Arts take design so seriously, I think beauty ties together visual and written rhetoric nicely.</p>
<p>Value: in the end, unless you have a sense of purpose, of the good, I don’t see how you can have a measure of utility.</p>
<p>Durable knowledge: exactly! I want us to think about the disciplines as a whole host of wonderful knowledge defining traditions. The liberally-trained individual need not be fluent in all of them, but knows they exist.</p>
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		<title>By: Dan</title>
		<link>http://snarkmarket.com/2009/2521/comment-page-1#comment-4403</link>
		<dc:creator>Dan</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 07 Feb 2009 11:22:41 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://67.207.132.117/?p=2521#comment-4403</guid>
		<description>Ah, I intended no purification.

Rather, I&#039;m happy to continue talking about what new disciplines and media-specific modes of inquiry grab our attention these days. That&#039;s ultimately what I gather this book-project to be about. But I think the truth/beauty/good nexus ought to help as a tool for assessment. If a new mode or discipline does not contribute notably to all of them: it&#039;s incomplete.

</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Ah, I intended no purification.</p>
<p>Rather, I’m happy to continue talking about what new disciplines and media-specific modes of inquiry grab our attention these days. That’s ultimately what I gather this book-project to be about. But I think the truth/beauty/good nexus ought to help as a tool for assessment. If a new mode or discipline does not contribute notably to all of them: it’s incomplete.</p>
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		<title>By: Tim</title>
		<link>http://snarkmarket.com/2009/2521/comment-page-1#comment-4402</link>
		<dc:creator>Tim</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 07 Feb 2009 11:08:44 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://67.207.132.117/?p=2521#comment-4402</guid>
		<description>But! I guess what I&#039;m skeptical about are the following.

1) Communication and beauty aren&#039;t the same thing. At all.

2) Value in the sense of the good and value in the sense of the useful are related but aren&#039;t quite the same thing.

3) &quot;Durable knowledge&quot; really does mean different things across the disciplines.

4) There is and has always been a &quot;liberal arts&quot; that is like the trivium and a liberal arts that is like the quadrivium, arts of form and those of content/disciplinarity. Going back to the Greeks and Romans, there are even practical liberal arts like architecture and medicine. The liberal arts have always been heterogenous. So there is no reason why we should be unduly anxious about purifying away discipline- or media-specific modes of inquiry.

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		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>But! I guess what I’m skeptical about are the following.</p>
<p>1) Communication and beauty aren’t the same thing. At all.</p>
<p>2) Value in the sense of the good and value in the sense of the useful are related but aren’t quite the same thing.</p>
<p>3) “Durable knowledge” really does mean different things across the disciplines.</p>
<p>4) There is and has always been a “liberal arts” that is like the trivium and a liberal arts that is like the quadrivium, arts of form and those of content/disciplinarity. Going back to the Greeks and Romans, there are even practical liberal arts like architecture and medicine. The liberal arts have always been heterogenous. So there is no reason why we should be unduly anxious about purifying away discipline– or media-specific modes of inquiry.</p>
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		<title>By: Tim</title>
		<link>http://snarkmarket.com/2009/2521/comment-page-1#comment-4401</link>
		<dc:creator>Tim</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 07 Feb 2009 10:54:01 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://67.207.132.117/?p=2521#comment-4401</guid>
		<description>@Dan: truth/science, good/humanities, and beauty/rhetoric also maps very nicely onto Kant&#039;s Three Critiques:

Pure Reason (how is knowledge possible?);

Practical Reason (how is ethics possibile?);

and Judgment (how is aesthetics possible?).

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		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@Dan: truth/science, good/humanities, and beauty/rhetoric also maps very nicely onto Kant’s Three Critiques:</p>
<p>Pure Reason (how is knowledge possible?);</p>
<p>Practical Reason (how is ethics possibile?);</p>
<p>and Judgment (how is aesthetics possible?).</p>
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		<title>By: Dan</title>
		<link>http://snarkmarket.com/2009/2521/comment-page-1#comment-4400</link>
		<dc:creator>Dan</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 07 Feb 2009 10:49:31 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://67.207.132.117/?p=2521#comment-4400</guid>
		<description>My point: we shouldn&#039;t try to pick out the disciplines that fit inside the liberal arts. We should see how the disciplines encompass the liberal arts.

Now think of history.

It&#039;s got a form (NARRATIVE) that communicates ideas very effectively.[Rhetoric/Beauty]

It produces trustworthy knowledge about the past by effectively gathering and classifying data (ARCHIVING--DATA-MANAGING, be that data machine-readable or not).[Science/Truth]

It serves the broader purpose of supporting a big, crazy, changing world by showing how un-natural that world is: how it evolved haphazardly due to a thousand tiny contingencies (De-NATURALIZING).[Humanities/Good]

</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>My point: we shouldn’t try to pick out the disciplines that fit inside the liberal arts. We should see how the disciplines encompass the liberal arts.</p>
<p>Now think of history.</p>
<p>It’s got a form (NARRATIVE) that communicates ideas very effectively.[Rhetoric/Beauty]</p>
<p>It produces trustworthy knowledge about the past by effectively gathering and classifying data (ARCHIVING–DATA-MANAGING, be that data machine-readable or not).[Science/Truth]</p>
<p>It serves the broader purpose of supporting a big, crazy, changing world by showing how un-natural that world is: how it evolved haphazardly due to a thousand tiny contingencies (De-NATURALIZING).[Humanities/Good]</p>
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		<title>By: Dan</title>
		<link>http://snarkmarket.com/2009/2521/comment-page-1#comment-4399</link>
		<dc:creator>Dan</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 07 Feb 2009 10:41:14 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://67.207.132.117/?p=2521#comment-4399</guid>
		<description>I want to jump back to Robin&#039;s fMRI fixation and consider the modern discipline of psychology. In so doing, I want to convince you all that the liberal arts should be conceived as running orthogonally to the disciplines.

What makes a good---and I mean a really good---research psychologist? I&#039;ll posit three elements:

1. an ability to frame answerable questions drawing on the tools of the discipline (be they scanners, flashcards, stopwatches, or statistical methods)

2. the ability to pick a worthwhile question; the power to scale up from small study to significant finding

3. the ability to convey new knowledge to a world that might be resistant to it.

This list could also distill down to:

1. science

2. humanities

3. rhetoric

That is:

1. framing answerable investigations; getting durable knowledge

2. asking big questions; judging value; understanding purpose

3. conveying; expressing; persuading---broadly: communicating

Which all maps pretty well to:

1. Truth [most limited, yet most powerful]

2. Good [most important, b/c foundational]

3. Beauty [most expansive, and most delightful]

And we&#039;re back to Howard Gardner. Or Aristotle.

</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I want to jump back to Robin’s fMRI fixation and consider the modern discipline of psychology. In so doing, I want to convince you all that the liberal arts should be conceived as running orthogonally to the disciplines.</p>
<p>What makes a good—and I mean a really good—research psychologist? I’ll posit three elements:</p>
<p>1. an ability to frame answerable questions drawing on the tools of the discipline (be they scanners, flashcards, stopwatches, or statistical methods)</p>
<p>2. the ability to pick a worthwhile question; the power to scale up from small study to significant finding</p>
<p>3. the ability to convey new knowledge to a world that might be resistant to it.</p>
<p>This list could also distill down to:</p>
<p>1. science</p>
<p>2. humanities</p>
<p>3. rhetoric</p>
<p>That is:</p>
<p>1. framing answerable investigations; getting durable knowledge</p>
<p>2. asking big questions; judging value; understanding purpose</p>
<p>3. conveying; expressing; persuading—broadly: communicating</p>
<p>Which all maps pretty well to:</p>
<p>1. Truth [most limited, yet most powerful]</p>
<p>2. Good [most important, b/c foundational]</p>
<p>3. Beauty [most expansive, and most delightful]</p>
<p>And we’re back to Howard Gardner. Or Aristotle.</p>
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